4 Agent Archetypes
In this episode, Zach Hammer breaks down the main strategies agents use to find business. He explains there are four archetypes – the Prospector, Networker, Converter, and Marketer. Each approaches the business in a different way, from outbound cold calls to generating warm leads. But Zach stresses that with the right framework, any agent can achieve success.
His co-host, top agent Charlie Madison, jumps in to share real-world examples. Charlie discusses how he’s implemented networking systems to develop lasting client relationships. Even when leads come from offline outreach, he walks through the sales process he uses. For converters, it’s about guiding strangers into clients through automation and scripts. Both Zach and Charlie agree the key is playing to your strengths. If you hate rejection, prospecting may not be the move.
In their discussion, Zach and Charlie emphasize testing multiple strategies isn’t necessary – focus on where your energy comes from. Still, most will need marketing elements like content for long-term impact. Their insightful breakdown of the archetypes provides a path for agents of any style. Listeners learn how blending approaches, like networking combined with content, leads to sustainable real estate success.
Other subjects we covered on the show:
- Marketing DNA test discussed by Charlie
- Why understanding archetypes matters for leading real estate teams
- Advantages and disadvantages of the Prospector archetype
- Tips for determining if prospecting is the right fit for your personality
- Outbound warm relationship building as the Networker archetype
- Systemizing networking approaches for reliability
- Converting inbound cold leads effectively as the Converter
- Implementing sales processes and automation
- Generating inbound warm leads at scale as the Marketer
- Building influence and experience over the long term
- Protecting your energy levels is key to sustainment
AND MORE TOPICS COVERED IN THE FULL INTERVIEW!!! You can check that out and subscribe to YouTube.
If you want to know more about Charlie Madison, you may reach out to him at:
[00:00:00] Zach Hammer: All right. Welcome, welcome to another episode of Real Estate Growth Hackers. I’m Zach Hammer. Here with me today. I got my buddy, Charlie Madison.
[00:00:09] Charlie Madison: I’m back
[00:00:10] Zach Hammer: A realtor, a software developer, an all around good guy. Always great to have him here on the show. Today, we are going to be talking about a great concept that I like called the four agent archetypes.
[00:00:25] Zach Hammer: So the four agent archetypes, this is basically a way of looking at the ways that real estate professionals get business. And we’re going to dive into what those different archetypes are. This is not an original concept to me. I forget exactly who came up with it. As you probably look that up and be able to say that, but it’s one that I have co-opted ,made my own, and use it for a lot of how I think through this process.
[00:00:49] Zach Hammer: So, why does this even matter? Why do we want to talk about the four agent archetypes? Well, the biggest reasons why this is a powerful concept for you as a real estate professional to dive in and to [00:01:00] understand is if you’re a real estate team leader, if you’re somebody who is working with real estate agents, recruiting real estate agents, trying to help real estate agents. You probably want to understand that not all people get business in the same way.
[00:01:13] Zach Hammer: I know Charlie here, you really like that marketing DNA test, right? That’s what we’ve talked about
[00:01:19] Charlie Madison: I love it. Yep.
[00:01:19] Zach Hammer: On one of your recent episodes that I appeared on and yeah, so the basic idea of that test, why don’t you walk people through that?
[00:01:25] Zach Hammer: Cause I think it kind of gives a good understanding for the reason why this matters in real estate specifically too.
[00:01:32] Charlie Madison: Yeah. So the simple version of the marketing DNA is when it’s similar to the Colby and that it’s got four things and it’s on a continuum. So one of the continuums is, are you a better sales person live or are you a better sales person recorded? And you know, you’ve got the extremes, I’m an extreme live, and then you’ve got people that are in the middle or vice versa.
[00:01:54] Charlie Madison: Next, are you a words person, or an image person? I’m a words person. [00:02:00] Then the third one is, are you analytical or more on empathy? And right now I can’t remember the last one, but that’s the concept. And, for me, when I read that, I used to beat myself up that I would go into situations what other people would say was unprepared.
[00:02:25] Charlie Madison: Like the truth is like I had tons of information, but I showed up. And when I did the marketing DNA, it said, hey, you’re best live, you empathize, so just get into the arena and just do your thing. That’s where magic happened. And when I read that, I was like, ah.
[00:02:44] Zach Hammer: Right.
[00:02:46] Charlie Madison: Like, it took. This judgment away from things that weren’t my strength.
[00:02:52] Charlie Madison: And now that’s what I do. I show up and let the magic happen.
[00:02:57] Zach Hammer: There you go. There you go. And so that’s really to [00:03:00] the point of why these sorts of ideas and frameworks can be really useful. So marketing DNA actually goes hand in hand with this. I think there’s marketing DNA dives in a little bit more into the specifics of how you might deliver on this content.
[00:03:15] Zach Hammer: This is more of an overall picture of the type of person and maybe a little bit less of the tactical, how they do it marketing DNA dives into that a little bit more. But the reason why this is so powerful is because the reality is that we, as people have a very hard time typically understanding what life is like from somebody else’s perspective.
[00:03:34] Zach Hammer: And so, you may be a successful real estate professional who has gotten a bunch of success, and you did it in a specific way, right? You leveraged a certain set of tools. Maybe you did a bunch of prospecting or maybe you ran a bunch of Facebook ads and that’s where you got your leads from. Or maybe you used, you know, Charlie’s method and you do a great job of keeping a top of mind with the people closest to you in an easy automated way.
[00:03:58] Zach Hammer: You know, realtor waiting list referrals while you [00:04:00] sleep, check them out, awesome products that that he’s developed. But there’s lots of different ways that you can grow your business. And you may think the way that I did it is the way it’s the best way. It’s the way that everybody should do it.
[00:04:12] Zach Hammer: And you know what, for you and people like you, that’s probably somewhat true. But if you are looking to you know, build a team or influence people, you need to have an understanding that either you cast a wide enough net to understand that you can get quality people to work with you that might grow their business in different ways, and you need to be able to equip them in order to grow their business in the way that makes sense for them, or you know that you’re going to get really narrow.
[00:04:41] Zach Hammer: And you’re going to get really targeted to find people like you so that you could teach them how to grow in the way that works well for you, but also understanding that’s going to cut off some percentage of people who could be successful. So that’s kind of the key idea here is we want to have that understanding so that we can really see value in all the different ways that it could [00:05:00] be found in terms of how people grow their business.
[00:05:02] Zach Hammer: And then separately on the other end, if you are a real estate agent who maybe is figuring out the business and still getting into this and sort of trying to make sense of everything that you’re hearing. Hopefully this episode gives you a bit of hope to understand that no matter who you are, there is a way that you can be successful to grow your business in the real estate industry that fits you and your personality, your strengths can be put to your advantage and your weaknesses can be shored up in ways that almost don’t matter.
[00:05:32] Zach Hammer: If you lean into what works well for you and what puts you into a natural state of flow. And so there is a way to grow your business that makes sense for you. And hopefully through the discussion of these four agent archetypes.
[00:05:44] Zach Hammer: You can see that there’s probably an angle or an area that feels like it fits better for you. So, does that make sense, Charlie? Anything else that you think I should touch on before we dive into the actual four agent archetypes?
[00:05:55] Charlie Madison: I think you just explained why I think real estate is the best [00:06:00] career in the world, because like whatever your archetype is. One, there is a way to make really good money doing it that way. And two, there’s even a model for that someone’s done it. So that’s really cool. And, you know, I think the other, you know, it’s really great marketing.
[00:06:23] Charlie Madison: You speak to your audience and each one of these four archetypes have a different, they’ve got a different story in their head. Just like there’s a different story in the head of the older couple that’s wanting to downsize than the 30 year old that’s got new kids that are wanting to upsize like the best marketing speaks to the story already in their head.
[00:06:46] Charlie Madison: So I’m excited to see these four, so that I can start thinking of, all right, like, which one do I want to target with this marketing, like, even if we’re going to target all four, you can have four different messages because there’s four different [00:07:00] stories going on in their head.
[00:07:02] Zach Hammer: Yeah, perfect, perfect. That’s next level implementation of this concept for sure. So yeah, a couple of caveats as we get into this. I think a lot of these tests, whether it’s you know, things like, Colby, marketing DNA, Myers Briggs disc, all of these sorts of ideas, assessments, those sorts of things.
[00:07:19] Zach Hammer: I think they are useful. But I think you, you run into problems. If you take them too exact and too literally without really asking yourself, does this ring true for me? So keep that in mind. This isn’t designed to place a definitive label on who you are and how you get business done. This is designed to give you language that could be useful to have conversations around these concepts.
[00:07:42] Zach Hammer: So keep that in mind. I think, by the way, out of any of them, Colby seems to be ones that I have found to actually be a bit more into the, yeah, it’s pretty good at describing things accurately, but most of them are a little bit of like, yeah, this is useful for me to think through this.
[00:07:54] Zach Hammer: So, keep that in mind, and the other thing to note about these before we get into them is that very often [00:08:00] your marketing mix likely has some of all of them in that, but you will find that you tend to lean heavy into one or another. And that’s where you kind of get the bulk of your work.
[00:08:12] Zach Hammer: But you likely supplement with the others, if that makes sense. So, those are a couple of the ideas to keep in mind as we go into this. But the four agent archetypes, the way that we lay this out is we have a quadrant and separating our top and our bottom sections. We have at the top, things that involve more outbound activity.
[00:08:32] Zach Hammer: At the bottom, we have things that are more inbound. You get people coming to you rather than you going to them. Okay to the left we have going out and talking to people cold so that the conversations are colder. And then on the right, we have conversations that are warmer, right? We’re leaning more into relationship and influence rather than you know, having to fabricate it out of nowhere, if that makes sense.
[00:08:55] Zach Hammer: So, that’s how these are divided. So, let’s start in the top left, which is where [00:09:00] I think if you’re getting into real estate, this is like, this is the quadrant, this is the archetype that everybody seems to think this is what’s necessary to build real estate. And if you aren’t this person, then you’re going to fail like that.
[00:09:13] Zach Hammer: That’s the story that I think is often going on in people’s heads. And let me tell you, there are tons of people that are successful with this and we call this one, the prospector or what I like to call them, the hunter. This is the person that goes out day after day and they find that deal by talking to cold people.
[00:09:28] Zach Hammer: This is often done on the phone, but they’re are prospecting methods that can be done with social media where you’re going out and having conversations with people that you just met, maybe, you know, drumming up business that way. There’s lots of ways that you can do this, but the idea door knocking is a prospecting type method, right?
[00:09:45] Zach Hammer: It’s where you go to the person in order to create the conversation that hopefully results you know, in some sort of real estate deal. And yeah, so, I mean, you’re dealing with outbound and cold at this quadrant in our top left, go ahead.
[00:09:59] Charlie Madison: Would this be people [00:10:00] that hold open houses call for sale by owners call expireds. Would that be in the same quadrant in your world?
[00:10:09] Zach Hammer: So, open houses likely fits a little bit more in another one that we’re going to get into, which is cold, but inbound. So we’ll talk about that in a second. But yeah, so anywhere where you are going out to people that would be in this category of prospecting. Now if before your open house, you go and you knock the doors in the area in order to try and get people to come and try and have conversations that’s implementing a prospecting strategy in connection with a different tactic of the open house itself.
[00:10:38] Zach Hammer: Does that make sense?
[00:10:39] Charlie Madison: Yep. Yep. That makes sense.
[00:10:43] Zach Hammer: Perfect.So yeah, and this one again, this is where a lot of the real estate world focuses, and there’s some reasons for it. Some of the advantages of being a prospect or a hunter. If you want to find a deal, you can potentially [00:11:00] do the work today to find it today. Right? You can do this type of prospecting with very little to no money, right?
[00:11:07] Zach Hammer: If you’ve got a phone and the ability to look up people’s phone numbers and figure out how to reach out to people, you could do this method for very cheap and you can make it even more effective for cheap as well. Using, you know, like multi line dialers and stuff like that, compared to like marketing campaigns are cheaper than say running ads in most cases.
[00:11:26] Zach Hammer: So there are those as the benefits. The downside is that you are going and getting every deal, right? You are very directly saying, if I don’t show up and make these calls, I am not finding deals today, right? And unless you have strategies that are more on the other end of the spectrum, where you’re turning your prospecting into things that are more long term beneficial for you, then you are very much building yourself, not a repeatable sustainable business that could work without you. You’re building yourself a job. You’re building yourself a job where you go and you find each and every deal.
[00:11:59] Zach Hammer: And so [00:12:00] that has that’s benefits where you could get an action quick and get results quick, but it has its downsides of you’re also not necessarily building something that’s long term, or sustainable. And then plus you’re dealing with people cold. So you’re going to have lots of conversations with people that don’t want to hear from you. And you have to be really comfortable with some level of rejection. If you’re going to do this method, you gotta be cool with calling people up and pissing them off because there’s going to be a portion of people that you do that with, even if you’re awesome at this process.
[00:12:26] Zach Hammer: So yeah, those are some of the ideas about this one. You had some thoughts on that, Charlie.
[00:12:29] Charlie Madison: Yeah, I was thinking of someone’s listening and they’re wondering, am I this person? The way that I would look at it is, am I the type of person I can go door knocking and every time I’m talking to someone, like I get energy from meeting new people and like the objections and rejection just doesn’t bother me.
[00:12:50] Charlie Madison: Like, so that’s one person. Like one is like the more strangers I meet, the happier I am. Like I can literally do it all day. And the [00:13:00] other person would be someone that, you know, it’s maybe the Alex Hormozy mold. You know, I love one of his things, he said, I didn’t know if I was going to succeed, but I knew I wasn’t going to give up.
[00:13:13] Charlie Madison: And so I think the other is if you’re like, you know what, I’m desperate enough, I am going to keep doing this no matter what, because you can’t do it with no money and you can’t outwork the competition, like you can work 20 hours a day, getting it up and going. So, you know, I think those are from what I’ve seen, the two people that, you know, really excel in this quadrant.
[00:13:39] Zach Hammer: Right, yeah, no, and I completely agree. I completely agree. The way that I like to describe how you can figure out where you place on this. I should have given this as the preliminary thing, but we’ll talk about it here because it’s relevant to what you just said, is any of these methods like you’re not going to escape one of these methods without there being some level of work that feels like work, [00:14:00] right?
[00:14:00] Zach Hammer: That feels like, you know what, given the choice between doing this or not doing this, like, I do have to put things in place that sort of forced me to do this to some degree. Right? So everything comes with that, where there’s some aspect of success where you have to do something that you don’t want to do in order to get a result that you want to get.
[00:14:18] Zach Hammer: The question though, is what is like the level of pain that thing that you don’t want to do is right? Is it the kind of thing where you feel like you could do this and be comfortable with that level of uncomfort for the next 6 to 12 months? Because, in general, that’s the amount of time that it’s going to take for any method to actually pay off.
[00:14:42] Zach Hammer: Are you comfortable with doing the work even without getting a deal immediately? For that period of time or do you feel like that would wear you down? Zap your energy and make it that you couldn’t be successful. So that’s the defining thing.
[00:14:53] Zach Hammer: I like to advise people you know to a decent rule of thumb test for something like this. [00:15:00] If you’ve got an idea that you think I think this might be a good fit for me you want to jump into it full footed and probably give it at least a month or so of actually testing it as fully as possible, because that gives you enough time where you kind of get past the new strategy excitement, you get into that, you know, that trough of despair where you get to see all the real problems that there are in there and you get to get a feel for, do I feel like I could do this for the next six months even if I don’t immediately get a deal?
[00:15:33] Zach Hammer: Because if you don’t feel like you could do that, then it’s probably not the right fit for you. But if you feel like, man, mentally, I feel like I’m okay. Yes, there’s rejection. I don’t enjoy rejection. Nobody does. But it doesn’t faze me so much that it makes me feel like quitting. Right?
[00:15:47] Zach Hammer: So those are the sorts of questions that you look at doing and doing something for a month gives you that opportunity to get past that initial learning curve where you start to be able to see some level of success as well to get a feel [00:16:00] for, you know, hey, like, I know I can do this, but do I want to, right? Like, that’s the question that you’re looking to do because basically, you could likely be some level of successful at nearly any of these.
[00:16:11] Zach Hammer: It really becomes a question of can you be successful long term? Can you continually do it without it completely draining your energy? So, as we’re going through this. That’s sort of what you want to be thinking. You want to be thinking in the back of your mind. Where do I feel like I could start and test? And then really give it an adequate test and ask yourself the question. Do I feel like I could do this for the next six months without clear, definite results and still be motivated enough to keep doing it? Cause that’s what it takes. So that’s the prospector, right?
[00:16:40] Zach Hammer: Now going into our next one, we’re going to go around, well, we’re going to go to the right right now on the quadrant. So we’re going to talk about outbound, but warm conversations. And that is Charlie right here. That’s our networker. That’s our gatherer. That’s our person that is fueled off of conversations.
[00:16:58] Zach Hammer: That you could go and you [00:17:00] could have those conversations, and build these relationships and talk to people that you haven’t met before, but you talk to them more focused on the relationship and more focused on the person. And then you build up enough of that warm interest that naturally business comes as a result of it, right?
[00:17:15] Zach Hammer: So it’s not about going out and talking to somebody and seeing if they’re ready to do a real estate transaction. It’s about going out and talking to people and making new friends. And building new relationships, caring about what’s going on in people’s lives, caring about their goals, dreams, aspirations.
[00:17:30] Zach Hammer: And you find enough of those people that you build a connection with and you stay in connection with them, that those people naturally, as long as they know that you are in real estate and are ready, willing and able to serve them when the time is right, those people will naturally want to work with you.
[00:17:46] Zach Hammer: And you build up a flow of business that way. So that when the deal comes warm. Right. You focus on the relationship first, the deal comes warm. And if you combine that with some really cool technology that helps to make sure that you’re staying top of [00:18:00] mind it could be game changer.
[00:18:01] Zach Hammer: Does that sound about right, Charlie?
[00:18:03] Charlie Madison: I think so. You know, I realized that my business requires three things to happen. One, when the person is ready to move, they think of me. Two, they feel comfortable reaching out to me. And three, I’ve got the ability to respond like, that’s really simple. And you know, got a client under contract now.
[00:18:27] Charlie Madison: And he walked up to me at the gym and said, Hey, do you know of anyone that could like help me get an investment property? I was like, yeah, like I help a lot of clients with that. And you know, what’s really cool is I brought him through my system and you know, it was like that’s the way those happen.
[00:18:45] Charlie Madison: By, you know, he knows what I do, you know, I’m smart, he asked how the market is. I tell him stories, you know, but yeah I love that way.
[00:18:56] Zach Hammer: Right, right. And honestly, if I had to [00:19:00] say like, people get into real estate for all sorts of different reasons, but one of the very clear, like, personalities that gets into real estate, gets into real estate under this idea of I’ve got lots of friends and family, I just, you know, and I like helping people with their home.
[00:19:17] Zach Hammer: I think I can make money just by, you know, helping people that I know like and trust and who know, like, and trust me to connect them to what they need in real estate. And so they get into the business thinking that they could build their business that way. But then very quickly you get into the business and everybody’s telling you, Oh, you got to buy leads, you gotta prospect. You gotta do all this other stuff.
[00:19:35] Zach Hammer: And these people end up under a flood of obligation that weighs them down when really man, when you’re this type of person. All you got to do, you like show up at your, you know, kids, sporting events be active in your church and meet people, find places where like minded people that you enjoy being around, meet up and hang out and go there and enjoy being around people, right?
[00:19:59] Zach Hammer: Like find more [00:20:00] opportunities to meet people. And that’s likely going to be your source of business. And so it’s, you know, the reason why people often end up under that weight of obligation is because there is a downside to this strategy. And the downside is it is front end work that ends up paying off on the back end as long as you’ve been doing it consistently, right?
[00:20:21] Zach Hammer: So this is not the kind of strategy where you’re very likely to go and show up and do the work and immediately find the deal. Now it will happen sometimes, and it’s awesome when it does, but more often than not, you’re putting in the work you’re building those relationships before they are actually ready to convert and you’re building them for a while before they turn into a deal.
[00:20:40] Zach Hammer: And so, you have the benefit. It doesn’t cost a lot to do this and you’re likely doing a lot of these activities anyway. So, you have a low cost method to grow your business. But the downside is that it’s not quick. And so if you need to find business quick. You may not be able to rely on this strategy by itself without modifying it a bit to try and find those quick [00:21:00] deals where they happen.
[00:21:01] Zach Hammer: So that’s the networker gatherer, right?
[00:21:03] Charlie Madison: Can I speak to a myth? There’s a myth that I’ve heard a lot. I’ve spent a lot of money getting leads. And one of the myths is that this person doesn’t have a system, that there’s not a system, that it’s unreliable, that it’s up and down that you can’t actually build a business from it.
[00:21:20] Charlie Madison: And what I’ve found is, it does require a system. So like when my friend asked me if I knew anyone that could help with investment, I didn’t just throw him in the car and like, we go look at homes. Like I’ve got, it’s a sales process, it’s a funnel, similar to if it was a stranger, but it’s different with people.
[00:21:44] Charlie Madison: And so like, I’ve got very clear steps that lead him to the closing. So one, it does require a system and, you know, the other thing is people say, well, you know, you’ve got people that leave your area, leave your database, you know, one of [00:22:00] your friends, their sister gets the real estate license. So you have to continue to replenish your database and that’s true as well.
[00:22:09] Charlie Madison: However, if you’re this person, you naturally replenish. Like, I meet three to four new people a week. Then you’ve got to have a good followup system that increases your trust, your influence. It’s why we built referrals while you sleep.
[00:22:26] Charlie Madison: There’s other great ones. Ninja selling is great by referral only, you know, there’s a number of people. So it is systemizable. And if this is you, it can work you know, once you know enough people in the area.
[00:22:41] Zach Hammer: Right, right. And I think that’s the trick. I think, just like you said the myth, the lie that people believe is like, that networking is only ever, hey, you get lucky with some deals as they come in. And that’s not the case, you can definitely build habits and activities that allow you to [00:23:00] leverage networking in a systematic, reliable, predictable sort of way.
[00:23:04] Zach Hammer: And you’re right. It’s different, it looks different, and it feels different. But it’s very much something that you can build a consistent business around for sure. So that’s the networker. That’s our top right quadrant, outbound and warm. Now we’re going down to the bottom left.
[00:23:17] Zach Hammer: So the bottom left, we’re back to cold. This is cold, but inbound, and that’s what we call our converter or our trapper. Okay. So this is going to be typically when people are describing what they’re doing as, you know, in marketing this is often what they’re actually doing. What they’re doing is they are driving somebody into some sort of lead capture squeeze scenario where a lead is generated often somewhat against their will.
[00:23:44] Zach Hammer: And so you’ve got somebody that what they’re asking for is, you know, like, they want information on a house or they want your list of homes or they want something and then your job is to take this person that isn’t specifically asking for a [00:24:00] relationship with you and then turning them into somebody that wants to work with you, right?
[00:24:04] Zach Hammer: And so there’s a process of turning this slightly warmer, than if you’re going out and prospecting for sure because you know, they requested something You’ve got indication that they have interest and you have some reason to start a conversation but they aren’t asking for a phone call where you’re going to help them with their real estate needs unless that’s very specifically what you’re running ads to where that’s what they’re requesting, right?
[00:24:24] Zach Hammer: But most cases, that’s not the case. Your typical Facebook ads, your typical Google ads, that’s not what you’re doing. You’re getting them to opt in for something, and then your job is to take that signal of interest and turn it into somebody that’s ready, willing and motivated to work with you.
[00:24:38] Zach Hammer: And so this style tends to be really good if you like to have conversations with people in more of a predictable way. Where you know what they’re interested in and you can predict how those conversations are going to go a lot more readily because you know how they came in, you know, what they’re looking for you want to be able to just run a [00:25:00] process.
[00:25:00] Zach Hammer: This is also a really good one, if you want to be able to build a lot of your system around technology and automation. Because you can automate text messages, emails, you can give yourself very clear times when you want to make a phone call and what that phone call needs to look like.
[00:25:14] Zach Hammer: You can have this set up where you show up and just process the end results of your system rather than kind of having to go and find the people to talk to that day. If that makes sense, you can show up for this system almost ready for exactly what you need to do. If you’re the kind of person that likes to just implement and execute on the thing that’s already clear and there and present, this is a good system for those kinds of people who, you’re going to be dealing with a lot of the same ideas as the prospector. You are going to be talking to people that aren’t going to be happy to hear from you.
[00:25:44] Zach Hammer: So you’re going to have some level of willingness to deal with that rejection. You’re also going to have to navigate a kind of lead that from the get go is not showing clear and direct interest in working with you and Charlie, I know [00:26:00] you can speak to that in terms of your feelings on working with these kinds of leads.
[00:26:04] Zach Hammer: So like, first off these types of leads how many of them tend to be super loyal, Charlie, where if something goes wildly wrong that they’re going to stick around and work with you, even if things go sideways for you.
[00:26:14] Charlie Madison: You know, for me, not many and, you know, like, I think there’s probably some people that have a really good gift at when the client is real up in their head, you know, the story is like, I’ve had calls like this, it’s 8 30, hey, Charlie, thanks for working with me. I couldn’t sleep last night. I think that’s a sign that we’re not supposed to work together.
[00:26:38] Charlie Madison: Bye.
[00:26:40] Zach Hammer: Right.
[00:26:40] Charlie Madison: And like, a thought worm started and it became a tremor and they like, they were in their head. I am not good.
[00:26:52] Zach Hammer: And keep in mind, by the way, in what you’re saying right here, this is after you likely just did a bunch of work to get them warmed up enough to be ready [00:27:00] to actually be a client and start working with you. Right? So like, you already did a bunch of work to work with them at this point you’re, this is down the road.
[00:27:06] Zach Hammer: You’re working with somebody and these kinds of conversations happen.
[00:27:09] Charlie Madison: Right. And like, I’m not good at I’m not good at bringing them back in. Now there’s some people that are amazing at that. Like, they love that competition. They’re like, oh, it’s on. I love that. You know, I found like people that like love sales. One of my friends, Jeff he used to sell oil investment opportunities over the phone for like 20 years.
[00:27:33] Charlie Madison: I mean, it’s almost like, you know, straight line closer. And like, so he loves this type of stuff. I mean, just boom, you know, use the Benjamin Franklin clothes, the, you know, all of the sales techniques. And you know, from my experience. You’ve got to have those and the people that are really good at that they’ve got that.
[00:27:54] Charlie Madison: And a lot of the big cell systems that you see out there, like this is what they have you go through.[00:28:00]
[00:28:00] Zach Hammer: Right, right. And so there is definitely a group and a personality that this makes sense for I do tend to find it is likely either something that’s a fit for you or it’s not and it’s not necessarily a sign that you’re doing something wrong if you can’t make a business work this way, cause it’s a very specific style for sure.
[00:28:20] Zach Hammer: And by the way, you know, we’re talking about the forge and archetypes. You know, you and I both tend to see things in that 80/20 sort of, sort of distribution that tends to be a natural distribution mechanism that happens in the world for how people’s personalities and everything lays out I would say that holds true with this too, that out of all of these, I would bet, 80% of people are in that network or category that’s where most people actually fit and that, 20% of people fall effectively in this prospector converter. And then the next one that we’re going to talk about as well that’s not where most people are.
[00:28:54] Zach Hammer: And so keep that in mind. You may very well be the kind of person who’s great at converting. You may be the kind of person [00:29:00] who is really good at taking systematic Facebook leads. Taking them through a process and turning them into the business that you need. And if so, great, there’s tons of opportunity out there for you.
[00:29:11] Zach Hammer: And, you know, some of the benefits of this one. This is a strategy that you can get to work today and find opportunities. Maybe not today, but sometimes today, if not like very quickly, right? Like you can generate leads.
[00:29:24] Charlie Madison: Right.
[00:29:25] Zach Hammer: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you could generate leads with this real quick.
[00:29:28] Zach Hammer: They’re going to be warmer than if you went out and started prospecting. But at the same time for that privilege, you’re also going to pay for it, right? You have to have some level of budget in order to be able to run processes like this, to generate those leads. And so there’s either a learning curve and or costs associated with it.
[00:29:44] Zach Hammer: So those are some of the downsides. Some of the other upsides, this is the kind of thing that if you get good at it. You can have a scalable system where you can make sure that you are flush with all of the work, all of the people that you need to talk to you can find people [00:30:00] who are good at helping be part of this system, you know, ISAs, you can train up teams that are good at prospecting into these types of lists, doing this kind of work and then bubbling up the best of the opportunities and being able to work with, you know, mainly people who are hot and ready to go.
[00:30:16] Zach Hammer: So there are systems that you could build around this, that can make it really good, but it takes a bit of a runway for sure in terms of budget, time to really make it work effectively. And really, you’re going to have some similarities with prospector, but a little bit more of you do it around systems rather than exclusively your sales skills, if that makes sense.
[00:30:36] Zach Hammer: Prospecting is a lot more about your quality of you know, being able to talk to people, being able to navigate those conversations. This one’s a little bit more on the systems and with still some level of those scale sales skills, but it relies on them a little bit less. So that’s our converter trapper. That’s our that’s our third archetype so far.
[00:30:52] Zach Hammer: And so then now we get into one of my favorites but still not many people are actually this one either, which is people [00:31:00] that are getting inbound, warm business. And so, what that means to me is that means that the calls are coming to you and they’re coming to you wanting to do business with you.
[00:31:10] Zach Hammer: Right. So they’re not just coming into your world. They’re coming into your world with the clear understanding that they want to work with you. Right. And that’s our marketer slash farmer. This is the person that puts a lot of work in on the front end. They plant the seeds they work the seeds, they water the seeds, they weed the garden until they actually are able to harvest the crop that they put tons of work in on the front end in order to be able to get the payoff at the end.
[00:31:34] Zach Hammer: And the key idea between like how I differentiate between the marketer versus the converter is that the marketer typically puts out information, likely pays to amplify it, puts out content in order to build influence rather than to directly generate leads. Right. So this is the person that is making sure that they’re showing up and being seen as an expert, being seen as somebody that, you know, like, and trust so that by the [00:32:00] time you’re looking to do a real estate deal, you are top of mind, right?
[00:32:04] Zach Hammer: And that’s the idea here, really the same way that converter relates to prospector. Where they’re both doing a very similar process, but the prospector goes to people in order to make it happen. And the converter kind of lets people come to them in order to operate a very similar process, marketer and networker are on a very similar sort of feel a lot of the same work that you would do as a networker, you do as a marketer, but you do that at scale in order to let people come to you.
[00:32:32] Zach Hammer: And so often these things can go together as well. But yeah that’s the key idea. So, you’re in the marketer camp. If you get really good at figuring out, how do I make sure that my social media gets shared and distributed effectively so that people are actually seeing this?
[00:32:46] Zach Hammer: How do I strategically do that? So that people think of me as a real estate expert that comes to mind when they have real estate questions. How do I you know, nurture my email list in order to make sure that I’m not just [00:33:00] burning through a list in order to get phone calls.
[00:33:01] Zach Hammer: I’m building up a list that people actually want to read, actually want to consume. Maybe you use direct mail and newsletters as a way to keep in touch with people and build that influence. The idea here is that it’s content at scale rather than one to one relationship building, which is more where the networker you know, fits into play.
[00:33:19] Zach Hammer: And so this is one of my favorites. This is a style of marketing of creating business that I love. The downsides to it, you gotta have some level of commitment to this in order to see the results when you’re doing one to many sort of stuff, people need to see you showing up for a year or longer before they even start to think of you this way.
[00:33:38] Zach Hammer: And so often I tend to recommend that if you think you’re the marketer, you still probably need to either be supplementing it with networker type work with converter type work with prospector type work in order to build your knowledge and influence. So that people become aware of you and then over time it can build a momentum of its own.
[00:33:57] Zach Hammer: But you’re gonna be working at it a long time, [00:34:00] before you start to see business off of the marketer style. And so, there’s often a cost associated with getting it up and running. There’s a timeline associated with getting it up and running. And so it’s not something that you don’t get to work on this today and find business today.
[00:34:12] Zach Hammer: If you gotta do that, then you gotta be leveraging. Either prospecting or converting, sometimes networking. It’s very much the, you do the work today to have it pay off a year from now. And that’s almost always the case with this style. So, any thoughts on the marketer? I know this one fits for you as well.
[00:34:28] Zach Hammer: Your blend of networking actually fits well with this marketer archetype as well.
[00:34:32] Charlie Madison: Yeah, I see, you know, like one, the network or they’ve got money coming in and you can do this pretty inexpensively should do this. You know, it creates the branding, it’s one to many follow up you know, a lot of the converters once they get the lead they implement this.
[00:34:54] Charlie Madison: So they brand and market themselves once they get the lead to convert the longterm people into [00:35:00] this. And you know, one of my favorite ways, I think this would be, have you ever heard of Ricky Carruth?
[00:35:05] Zach Hammer: I have, I was actually going to bring him up if you weren’t. So, yeah.
[00:35:08] Charlie Madison: Yeah. I mean, you know, his strategy if I was going to like have a non networking strategy, it’s like his is brilliant. And, you know, he calls everyone in the city now, you know, I think he’s got an assistant and says, Hey, you know, how are you doing? It’s a great weather out today.
[00:35:25] Charlie Madison: You know, he’s out. I think, and I was just, I think he’s an orange beach cat, Alabama, or he’s somewhere around there. And he says, Hey I’ve got a, I don’t know the exact script, but I’ve got a marketing, not a marketing email, but I got a real estate thing that I’d like to send you. All right. What’s your email?
[00:35:42] Charlie Madison: And he just gets everyone’s email and he sends that email out once a week, every week at the same time. And with that, over years and years, he gets tons of people that call him and you know, he’s he’s well known. He’s done [00:36:00] really well. And that’s what occurred to me when you mentioned this as a great way to do it.
[00:36:05] Zach Hammer: Yep, yep. Absolutely. And yeah, he is a perfect example of how to strategies can go together, ’cause he is definitely on that prospect end, right? He’s going out, he’s making cold conversations with people picking up the phone in order to have the conversation. What’s great is, I’m sure there are times where he picks up the phone, he has a conversation and that person is ready to do a deal. And he is skilled enough as a salesperson to be able to take them from that conversation into being a client fairly quickly.
[00:36:32] Zach Hammer: He has that skillset, but he set himself up to have really good long term success because even if they aren’t. He has an offer that can apply to everybody he talks to that still builds them into that long term sustainable strategy where he can still get warm business coming in via his newsletter via his weekly email that he sends out.
[00:36:54] Zach Hammer: And so, yeah, I think this is definitely, it’s one of those strategies that [00:37:00] every one of the strategies likely should have some component where they’re trying to leverage this. It may not always be the biggest portion of your business because I think there is a skill set to like having that sort of addiction to saying what’s working, what’s not, because being the marketer, you do have to have a little bit of that.
[00:37:19] Zach Hammer: Like, you pay attention to the numbers and you pay attention what messaging actually gets opened and what, like, there is a little bit of a specific personality to this, but even if you aren’t that personality having some sort of way where you’re saying I have a way to stay in long term relationship with people is a key aspect, I think, of long term success in real estate and likely there is a way or a method to, you know, whether you’re the prospect or whether you’re the networker, whether you’re the converter.
[00:37:47] Zach Hammer: Any of those can have a an aspect of them that leverages the marketer archetype as well. And so with all that in mind, that sort of puts a bow on this whole process, right? So the idea here is that if, [00:38:00] you know, whether you’re looking to work with people and recruit agents and get people onto your team successfully or whether you are an agent looking to be successful in the business, understanding that there’s all sorts of different ways.
[00:38:12] Zach Hammer: In order to grow your business successfully can let you leverage that to your benefit to not waste your time trying to be somebody that you’re not, and to spend more of your time trying to lean on your strengths and lean on you know, the power of leveraging your strengths and leveraging the things that gave you energy.
[00:38:29] Zach Hammer: You know, Charlie, I know for you. This is something that, I don’t know if we’ve ever put it this way, but it’s something that I feel like is very true you know, to how we talk about business one of the biggest things that you fight for in business is like at all costs, protecting your energy.
[00:38:46] Zach Hammer: Because if you don’t protect your energy, then everything else falls apart. If you show up demoralized, it’s hard to do anything. If you don’t feel good about the work that you’re doing, it’s really hard to keep at it. And so this [00:39:00] is really what this is about.
[00:39:01] Zach Hammer: It’s about making sure that you can protect your energy. Do the things that give you energy. You can’t do the things that take it from you for very long. And so, you know, hopefully this is an episode that gives people hope and clarity around a wider view of possibilities for how you can have a successful real estate business.
[00:39:22] Zach Hammer: There are examples of successful real estate professionals in every one of these categories and mixtures of all of these categories. And then further, if you are building a real estate team or looking to work with real estate professionals, hopefully this lets you better understand kind of where.
[00:39:37] Zach Hammer: Either where does your knowledge, expertise or tool set fit in this world of growing a real estate business? Or if you need to equip agents to be successful, maybe this gives you some more ideas about how to have empathy for somebody that can have success in a way that you didn’t have success or that you don’t naturally think.
[00:39:56] Zach Hammer: And that might give you more opportunity to build a successful team, [00:40:00] build a successful real estate business, helping other real estate agents as well. There you go.
[00:40:04] Charlie Madison: There’s one thing I wanted to add that you know, I like that you said most people need the marketing. And, you know, you’ve got to have like in a little obsession. I know it took me 20, you know, I’ve been studying it for 20 years. You probably the same, right? And, you know, part of working in, you know, you have an energy is working with a team.
[00:40:25] Charlie Madison: And so like, if you know, you need that kind of marketing, reach out to Zach, you know, like that’s where he’ll be able to help you and point you in the right direction. Cause I mean, you get it, like you get all four quadrants. I mean, you’ve studied not just marketing, but real estate marketing for all four of those to help each person, so you didn’t say it but it’s true. I mean, I read like I’ve studied it for a long time and we’re on WhatsApp all the time. Like I’m at like, what do you think about this? What do you think about that?
[00:40:58] Zach Hammer: Yeah, absolutely. And [00:41:00] yeah, I mean, that, that’s exactly right. I mean the you know, on that same conversation of if you aren’t the person that like really dives into the numbers and is fascinating that definitely find the person who is for sure, I’d love to be that kind of person for people.
[00:41:13] Zach Hammer: But even if not me find the people that can make it so that you can show up and do the marketing in a way that feels natural for you. Right. That’s part of why we do this show, right? Cause you and I both on that marketing DNA concept, we both lean into the, we flow better if we can talk.
[00:41:29] Zach Hammer: And we flow better if we could just show up live in order to create rather than having to, you know, massively prepare something in advance. So, while I do enjoy writing at times, it isn’t something that flows easily, always for me, right? So it’s not something I could reliably go to, but man, showing up and having a conversation with you like this is my oxygen, right?
[00:41:47] Zach Hammer: Like this just, this feels easy, this feels fun. And so this is a great way for people like you and I to get our message out. And similarly, you know, maybe you are the kind of person who writes better. And so maybe a written newsletter is actually your [00:42:00] thing that will allow you to flow and make this feel easy.
[00:42:03] Zach Hammer: Maybe, you hate the idea of showing up on camera, but you can talk through something. So maybe you need a partner with somebody who can take your conversations and turn them into articles and blog posts and newsletters and those kinds of things can help you translate what does feel natural to you into something that’s scalable.
[00:42:20] Zach Hammer: So anyway. There is a path to success. That’s the key here. It might take it might take some level of partnership. It might take some level of skill development but it likely isn’t as burdensome as it might feel at times. There’s always some level of uncomfortableness on the process to grow and be successful.
[00:42:38] Zach Hammer: But man, if it feels like everything just makes you not want to continue, that you might be going up a path that isn’t the right one for you. So hopefully with the information about the four agent archetypes that that gives you more clarity on how to either help others be successful or to gain that success yourself.
[00:42:55] Zach Hammer: So there you go. That is the episode. That is the content for today, Charlie.[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] Charlie Madison: Sounds good. I like it.
[00:43:02] Zach Hammer: Right. Well, thanks so much for showing up for another episode of the Real Estate Growth Hacker show. I’m Zach Hammer. This was Charlie Madison with us as well, and we’ll catch you on the next one.
Real Estate Growth Hackers Founder
Zach Hammer is the co-founder of Real Estate Growth Hackers. Over the last 36 months Zach and his team have managed ad budgets well over $100,000, generated over 25,000 real estate leads, and helped create over $50,000,0000 in business revenue for their clients. Zach is also a highly sought after speaker and consultant whose work has impacted some of the top Real Estate teams and brokerages across the country.